Am I doing something wrong?

[jaina]

Maybe some of you remember a post I made awhile back about the issues we were having with this one bakery for our wedding. If you don't (or want to refresh your memory), the post is here.

I did end up going for a consultation with Kathy herself and it seemed fine. I got a few more of my questions answered, I was pretty happy. We've tasted at two other bakeries since then and they had okay cake, but nothing special, and they were both at least $50 more than Kathy's Cakes, overall.

Then we came up with this stupidly brilliant brainstorm to have our cake be Minas Tirith. A seven-tiered behemoth of a fortress cake, which Rogue would decorate with his little LOTR mini figures. It would be funny, it would be impressive, some of our guests would love it and others would be confused. So I emailed Kathy's again to ask if it would be possible, and if so, what a ballpark cost might be. Here's my email:


Hello,

I've had two wedding appointments with you guys, and my
fiancé and I thought we had decided on what kind of cake
we wanted. However, last weekend we came up with a rather
elaborate, somewhat crazy cake idea. If you've ever seen or
read Lord of the Rings, there's a city called Minas Tirith
which is this huge, white, seven-tiered walled city. In
trying to describe it, people often refer to it as looking
like a wedding cake, and we thought-- wouldn't it be funny
to have a Minas Tirith wedding cake?

Here are a couple of images of what the city might look like
(the first is the city as it appears in the movie, the
second is a fan's concept):

http://shop.decipher.com/TCG/Card.aspx?gameID=7&cardID=3942
http://home.planet.nl/~radiant/Tirjpg.htm

Obviously we wouldn't want all seven layers to be cake; I
remember hearing that you can use styrofoam blocks for extra
layers. And I'm not sure how elaborate we'd want the
decoration to be, although we'd probably go for less rather
than more. Anyway, we're just trying to figure out if
something like this is possible, and if so, what a general
idea of the cost would be. It would still be about 100
slices of cake that we'd need.

Looking forward to hearing back from you!

Thanks,
Caitlin

***

And the following was her reply, and the reason for this post:

***

If you can afford $10.00 a slice, I could tackle it. In the meantime,
I am too busy working with brides who have contracted with us and
have given us deposit money.

You might try Crumbs of Paris. They do castle cakes.

***

Okay, maybe I'm being totally oversensitive (and if I am, please tell me), but does that sound like a total brush-off, or what? "I'm too busy working with people who've already paid us." Well gee, I'm sorry I haven't ponied up any money yet, but I'm trying to make an informed decision here! It's not like my wedding is next month and I'm asking her to do this-- it's four months away! I know this is San Diego and places book fast, but four months is still a fair amount of lead time on a cake, right?

I'm really worried that I'm doing something wrong, that I'm coming off badly in my emails, or I'm committing some major wedding-etiquette faux pas and I don't even know it. I had such great luck finding my florist and photographer, and now this. Is she mad that it's been a month since I first contacted them and I haven't picked yet? Does she think I'm obnoxious for asking for that second consultation and then for this email, asking for something crazy?

I'm really not sure where to go from here. I think the Minas Tirith idea is out; that's just way too much money (esp. compared to the less than $3/slice our original cake was going to cost). We've already tasted at Crumbs of Paris (the place she suggested) and I wasn't too impressed with either their flavors or their service. Or their prices, for that matter. *sigh* Weddings make you cry over the stupidest things.

Comments

[nmissi.livejournal.com]

Honey, you didn't do anything wrong. She's a bitch, she's married to an asshole, and for some reason? Some people think asshole=artist. They're wrong. The 'paid clients' are obviously labouring under this misapprehension.

When is the wedding date? How many people are you feeding? (thus, how much of minas tirith must be cake?)

I'd give anything if I could afford to fly in and do the damn thing myself. In lieu of that, I'm going to dig up some references in your area. You might put a post at the sugarcraft.com message board, looking for interested parties. If you WANT Minas Tirith, damn it, you should have it. 10.00 a slice is a joke, unless you planned on serving all seven stories. (there would be structural issues with the lower layers made of cake- but this is eliminated by using fakes in their place.)

Would either you or the groom be up to doing it yourself? I could send you detailed instructions and recipes, if you wanted. "Castle" cakes are not inherently more complicated than other wedding cakes- it all comes down to structural integrity.

I'll ask around the cake boards for someone in your area, and get back to you.

I'm sorry this is such hell, and trust me- you did NOTHING wrong. NOTHING. This woman is just an embarassment to our profession.

[jainamsolo.livejournal.com]

Thank you, Missi. That makes me feel better. *hugs*

The wedding is October 10, a Sunday. There will be around 100 guests but we probably want a little extra cake. So probably only three layers of actual cake? Maybe four?

Where on the Sugarcraft boards would I post? I checked out all the forums and there didn't seem to be anyone posting and looking for a baker, and I didn't want to post in the wrong place.

I'm almost crazy enough to try it myself, but I just don't think I want that much stress that close to the wedding. Plus, our oven is evil. Seriously evil.

I'll ask around the cake boards for someone in your area, and get back to you.

I love you forever for this. Searching the San Diego wedding boards I visit just comes up with the same bakeries over and over. If we're going for this cake, we really need someone who either loves LOTR or is looking for a challenge and willing to work with me on making a good reproduction.

Rogue also wants to decorate the cake with all his LOTR mini figures in lieu of a cake topper, so that Minas Tirith is actually peopled. ;-) I'm all for it!

[nmissi.livejournal.com]

I've been thinking alot about this cake...

I posted a note to sugarcraft, and called my friend in san francisco to see if she had any suggestions. (She runs a cake supply shop.) I'll let you know if anything turns up. But if not, we can do it ourselves. The most complex part will be the citadel at the top. I think I could cast that out of royal icing, and mail it to you- you'd have to put it together, like a puzzle. Assuming you need 105 servings of actual "cake", and 2 "fakes", we could also build the fakes out of foamcore and ice them in spackle. They'd hold up long distance, to be mailed. That'd leave you four or five stories of cake for someone to do, and really? they're easy stories- mostly white "walls" carved into the icing. The most elaborate stuff I could do in advance, from here. Your decorator wouldn't have to do anything but the plain stories and assembly.

I'm thinking 4-6-8-10-12-14-16 diameters, 6, 8, 10 and 12 to be real cake.(6-10 serv, 8-20 serv,10- 30 serv, 12- 45 serv)( the top 4 in layer could be a fake, or it could be your 'anniversary layer').

You could pretty much have a grocery store do the plain white layers, and carve them yourself, if you had to. I can handle the citadel and the fakes. (Sigh. I really wish I lived closer to you!!!)

[sonata960.livejournal.com]

Sweetie, your email was fine. I would guess that there is annoyance on their part that you haven't chosen them by this point - it sounds like their cakes are generally better than others in your price range, and they are probably used to people jumping in right away. That being said, it's *your* wedding, and if you want to shop around cake makers and throw out ideas, that's your perrogative and they should not respond the way they did, even if they are annoyed! Geez, what horrible customer service.

My take on it is this: it's just cake. No one remembers what the cake tastes like, unless you spend ungodly amounts of money for something way over the top, and then they'll probably remember that it was over the top, and not what it tasted like. I only vaguely remember mine, and that was less than 2 months agao and I *cared*. If you can go with someone who will a) give you good customer service; b) can do your Minas Tirith idea (which is way cool) for a reasonable price if that's what you really want; and c) has cake that only tastes OK compared to this rude place, I would go with them.

Repeat after me: it's just cake! It should be fun!

[jainamsolo.livejournal.com]

Thanks, Sue. :) It's good to get a recent bride's view on the issue. Hopefully Missi can help me get some good leads on someone who'd be willing to tackle this, and also hopefully that someone can do banana, lemon, and chocolate cakes. Because, yum.

"It's just cake! It should be fun!"

[hlynn.livejournal.com]

Sounds like she's overworked and thinks she's entitled to be snotty. Which she isn't. And that she made it about the money in such a passive-aggressive way means that you're better off without her. You'd have to be dealing with her more if you hired her, and she doesn't sound to me like the sort of person one wants to be around.

I love the idea of the Minas Tirith cake, BTW. And it doesn't look like it would be too hard to do, either. It's just a regular wedding cake with some fancy sides to it, rather than roses and what-have-you. If Kathy was any kind of artist, she would've jumped at the chance to try it, even if she didn't 'get' the LOTR reference.

[jainamsolo.livejournal.com]

I think you're right about her being overworked. From all the contact I've had with them, it seems like they have more business than they know what to do with and they don't know when to say "enough."

I honestly thought she might like the challenge of a Minas Tirith cake-- I know lots of times vendors love it when you come up with a crazy idea, to see how they can pull it off. But clearly she's too stressed to want to do it.

Thanks for the input, Heather. :)

[dmbtuxwaddle.livejournal.com]

well..... being as they care SO much about their establishment to get it in such a NICE area of town.... and teh service that i witnessed when we went in for the first time..... i say that i go in to "Kathy's Cakes" and do a shakedown...... (for money of course, as i am still an unemployed bum... and i need money). Plus, i'm beefing up... and i can be very intimidating! Plus...... look @ my hair.... who would NOT be afraid of this hair.......

yeah.... i rest my case!

but in all honesty, i say leave Kathy..... apparently she doesnt' need your biznuz with all of her paying clients that she is sooooooooo busy with.

if i were getting in earlier and not like the day OF the wedding, i'd bake a cake for you! ASK mum! i made her a SUPERFANTASTIC birthday cake! it was AWESOME! and it was only my first one!

Just guess how many more cakes i'll make between now and then...... like 1! so by then, i'd have MAD cake experience! WOOT!

[jainamsolo.livejournal.com]

Mom specifically commented on your cake when I called her on Sunday. She loved it! And hey, you managed to make yours with all white flour instead of using half wheat flour, so you're already ahead of me. *g*

If you were here, we could definitely go and use our intimidating presences to get the cake I want. Your hair is very scary. But you're *not* here. This is why you should move to SoCal after college! ;-)

tort?

[dmbtuxwaddle.livejournal.com]

yeah.... it took it out of the oven...... and i was like...... this seems an AWFUL lot like a loaf of bread..... maybe i did somethign wrong...

i was fretting a revisit to the whole "tort" ordeal

luckily all of my fears were soon put aside and my cake was delicious.... just the frosting was a LITTLE runny.... but I can easily remedy that now that I understand how. Maybe i'll take after nana's father and become some great pastry chef! or maybe not.. maybe i'll just do my whole aerospace thing.... woudlnt' want mom and dad's money going to waste!


WOAH! what about my hair being scary! I now have scruff too! You've never seen me with scruff. I look like a freaky mountain man who could SNAP at any moment! Like Kazinski or whatever his name was! All i need is a hoodie..... OOOOOOOOOH wait! i have that AWESOME UCSD ONE!!!!!!

It's not you

[gmtarkin.livejournal.com]

First and most importantly, this is absolutely not your issue. Your email to her was very reasonable and would not have taken much time to answer nicely. The fact that she's blowing you off after having gotten feedback from you in the past about poor service is just ridiculous. I've never agreed with the theory that you have to cater to service providers -- the last time I checked, those of us in service industries were supposed to cater to our customers. In this case, literally. So this is her being a terrible businesswoman (and not a very nice person). You're fine.

Second, I have to agree with those who suggest ditching this vendor. Weddings are logistically challenging enough without having to work with people who are difficult and annoying. It will raise your stress level, which probably isn't worth it. Unless you really dislike the cakes from the other places, I don't know that you want to keep working with this terrible woman.

Finally, on a personal note, I will share our wedding cake story. Steve and I went together to pick out this completely amazing chocolate-raspberry cake that we just loved. We cut the cake, served a few slices, but then were called to the dancefloor. Unfortunately, by the time we got back, the tables were cleared and all the cake (which clearly everyone liked) had been eaten, with no leftovers. So we never got any. No one's fault -- the waitstaff would have been horrified if they knew -- but there it is. Even at the time I didn't really care, no matter how careful I had been in choosing. It was pretty, people enjoyed it, and I managed not to get any on my dress while cutting. So it's all good.

Re: It's not you

[jainamsolo.livejournal.com]

Thanks, ML. I'm glad my email came off okay. I think we're just going to have to find another cake vendor. Hopefully with Missi's help I can find someone good.

That's awful about not getting any cake at your own wedding! First stories about not getting any food, and now this! Just one more thing to watch out for on the day, huh? Hell, I'll cut the first slice and eat it myself, to make sure I get a piece. *g*

[lily-advance.livejournal.com]

in my previous response to this saga i fell on the side of moderation, saying that maybe it was the one guy who helped you who was a jerk and maybe Kathy is nicer. Well, I now can see that Kathy is no nicer than the folks she has working for her, and if you were not the last of the brides I currently know getting married these days, I'd be advising all my unsuspecting friends to avoid her. You were fine. She was amazingly rude. Apparently she doesn't want your business, and so I'd say, fine. We all eat less exciting cake elsewhere. And don't be thinking that you should do it just cuz it's better cake than you had elsewhere. These people are cleraly getting all the business they want and don't have to do any customer service. I'd send a nasty note.

Your comment 'weddings make you cry over the stupidest things' is so right on. It's good to remember at times like this that what's making you cry isn't really the vendor, and that you don't have to be perfect.

We had no cake. It makes me sad even now. I hope that you can do the Minas Tirith cake, and I agree with whoever said that it was a wonderful creative opportunity for any cake designer.

maybe you could do an all white cake, and then project an image of Minas Tirith *onto* it....

[jainamsolo.livejournal.com]

Thanks, Cinda. *hug* Just saw your first three wedding pictures, love them! Want to see more detail on your ensemble and bouquet. ;-)

I sent a very short, civil reply to her email. Once we settle on a baker, I'm debating whether or not I should send that nasty email to them or not. On the one hand, I really hate coming off as mean or nasty. On the other hand, I'll never deal with them again, so what does it matter? In terms of actually getting them to understand that I felt ill-treated, it'd probably be best to explain calmly and clearly why I won't be choosing them even though I loved their cake. Even if I do that though, I'll probably be brushed off as just another Bridezilla. *sigh*

Oh well. Minas Tirith or bust!

go get someone else

[(Anonymous)]

Everyone is right here Caitlin - so not your fault and so not worth this trauma! Let me tell you another wedding cake story: Mike and I had gone to the place we had our wedding - the cake was included with the price of the location and food and everything - we brought a picture of what we wanted and the baker said no problem and it fit into the included price and everything - it was stapled to our agreement and all set. Not until we looked back at the wedding video and pictures when we first got them back after the honeymoon did we notice - that the cake wasn't remotely like the picture we had picked out! The inside was right, as we tasted, but the cake didn't look at all like what we asked for in terms of the layers, layout, or decorations - and we didn't even notice until looking at the pictures after the fact!